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Founding Fathers: On The Importance of Public Education

Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:29 PM EDT
politics, quotes, editorial, founding-fathers, thomas-jefferson, opinions, james-madison, public-education, ben-franklin, benjamin-rush, minnie-editorial, survival-of-democracy
By MinnieApolis
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(Translation into Spanish and French are below.)

When it comes to discovering what the opinion of the founding fathers was on the value of public education, it rapidly becomes clear that they considered it essential to the survival of the democratic form of government – or to be more precise, our democratic republic form of government. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison both weighed in on the side of full support for educating the masses. Others who lived in the same era who also pushed for public education were Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Noah Webster, and Benjamin Rush.

 

While Thomas Jefferson tried and failed to convince the Virginia legislature to set up a system of public schools – proposing a generous full scholarship to the College of William and Mary for one child from the district every two years – he was vehement that education was essential to the survival of the American experiment. Yet it remained for Horace Mann to institute the first public schools in the nation in the state of Massachusetts, a mere sixty years later.

Jefferson is quoted as saying that “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.”

Jefferson's proposed program of courses was top-heavy on history, but included writing and arithmetic. The reading segment was almost entirely made up of history “from Grecian, Roman, European, and American history.” He explains that “history by apprising them of the past will enable them to judge of the future; it will avail them of the experience of other times and other nations; it will qualify them as judges of the actions and designs of men; it will enable them to know ambition under every disguise it may assume; and knowing it, to defeat its views (Jefferson, “Notes on the State of Virginia”).”

While President Jefferson may seem a bit optimistic about the power of public education, to be fair one must admit that his program of courses has not been applied in modern times, there being more emphasis on social studies and self-expression.

Yet there's a lot to be said for his approach of skimming off the cream of the crop for further education at the higher levels. Choosing who will advance on the basis of merit was, he felt, a tool to ensure that talents are not wasted. “By that part of our plan which prescribes the selection of youths of genius from the classes of the poor, we hope to avail the state of those talents which nature has sown as liberally among the poor as the rich, but which perish without use, if not sought and cultivated (Jefferson, “Notes on the State of Virginia”).”

James Madison applauded when the State of Kentucky appropriated funds for a general system of education in 1822. In a letter to William Taylor Berry in August of that year, he stated that “a popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy, or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.” After stating his particular interest in observing the progress of the state of Kentucky, he wrote that “its rapid growth and signal prosperity which is now providing for the State a Plan of Education embracing every class of Citizens, and every grade and department of Knowledge. No error is more certain than the one proceeding from a nasty and superficial view of the subject: that the people at large have no interest in the establishment of Academies, Colleges, and Universities, where only a few only, and those not of the poorer classes can obtain for their sons the advantages of superior education. It is thought to be unjust that all should be taxed for the benefit of a part, and that too the part least needing it. If provision were not made at the same time for every part, the objection would be a natural one. But, besides the consideration when the higher Seminaries belong to a plan of general education, that it is better for the poorer classes to have the aid of the richer by a general tax on property, than that every parent should provide at his own expence (sic) for the education of his children, it is certain that every Class is interested in establishments which give to the human mind its highest improvements, and to every Country its truest and most durable celebrity.”

 

And echoing Thomas Jefferson's statement that democracy depends on an educated populace, Madison stated that “Learned Institutions . . . throw that light over the public mind which is the best security against crafty and dangerous encroachments on the public liberty.”

 

Madison notes that nations around the world were watching the American experiment with interest. “The American people owe it to themselves, and to the cause of free Government, to prove by their establishments for the advancement and diffusion of Knowledge, that their political Institutions, which are attracting observation from every quarter, and are respected as Models, by the newborn States in our own Hemisphere, are as favorable to the intellectual and moral improvement of Man as they are conformable to his individual and social Rights. What spectacle can be more edifying or more seasonable, that that of Liberty and Learning, each leaning on the other for their mutual and surest support?”

 

Benjamin Franklin started an alternative to the Latin-based grammar schools by creating the American Academy in 1751 in his hometown, Philadelphia. This was the beginning of high school as we now know it, with instruction primarily in English. (The Academy later became the University of Pennsylvania, the first modern liberal arts college in the country.) He served as its president for the first five years; Franklin also started the first lending library of its kind in Philadelphia.

 

Benjamin Rush, another Pennsylvanian, was considered the father of public schools since he was the first to advance the idea of free public education – education for both boys and girls, a radical idea at the time. Although by profession a medical doctor, he wrote the first American chemistry textbook and took part in the public debate on many issues. Rush felt that a school should teach the subjects of history, arithmetic, reading/writing, economics, chemistry, poetry, mythology, vocal music and religion, as well as physical education. “While we inculcate these republican duties upon our pupil, we must not neglect at the same time to inspire him with re publican principles. He must be taught that there can be no durable liberty but in a republic and that government, like all other sciences, is of a progressive nature.” he wrote. The study of the so-called dead languages was imperative, in his opinion, to developing young practitioners of “law, physic or divinity.”

 

It may be a relief to modern readers of this page that Noah Webster did not support the heavy emphasis on learning the speeches of ancient Greeks and Romans. Of Demosthenes and Cicero he wrote, “These are excellent specimens of good sense, polished stile and perfect oratory; but they are not interesting to children. They cannot be very useful, except to young gentlemen who want them as models of reasoning and eloquence, in the pulpit or at the bar.” OK, so what did he propose that the curriculum include? History, primarily American history, plus geography, “an acquaintance with ethics, and with the general principles of law, commerce, money and government.”

 

Again, Webster echoes the belief that proper education is the first defense against tyranny. “In despotic governments, the people should have little or no education, except what tends to inspire them with a servile fear. Information is fatal to despotism . . . In our American republics, where [government] is in the hands of the people, knowledge should be universally diffused by means of public schools.” He believed that “the more generally knowledge is diffused among the substantial yeomanry, the more perfect will be the laws of a republican state.”

 

As a side note, it is interesting that according to historian David McCullough, the Founding Fathers were all well-versed in Greek and Latin, steeped not only in the language but in the history, ideals, and philosophy of the best of those cultures. Jefferson, for example, “began the study of Latin, Greek and French at the age of 9 under the Reverend James Maury, a learned man, in the finest classical tradition . . . [and] attended William and Mary College in Williamsburg at sixteen years old.” In a letter he wrote to a British friend in 1800, Jefferson declared that “that to read the Latin and Greek authors in their original is a sublime luxury, and I deem luxury in science (possession of knowledge) to be at least as justifiable as in architecture, painting, gardening, or the other arts.”

 

Diametrically opposed to Jefferson was Alexander Hamilton, who stood on the side of a kind of Social Darwinism in which the domination of the wealthy was justified as proof of the superiority of the upper classes.

 

Also it should be made clear that during the colonial period (the 1600s), public education at the time was more like what we now label parochial education. In the New England colonies in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Hampshire, children were educated by the churches, who saw a duty to teach children to read the (English-language) Bible. But as a tide of immigrants from many nations and creeds came to object to forced acceptance of just one sanctioned view of the Bible's message. As a result, private schooling had become the norm by the eighteenth century. The private schools were free to instruct in English or the language of the community, or add courses in classical languages. However, the best schools were available only to the wealthy classes, a state of affairs that became the target of reformers like Horace Mann in Massachusetts.

 

In many ways the format of the modern high school curriculum was a resounding success. Attendance skyrocketed among American teens; from 1900 to 1996 the percentage of teens who graduated from high school rose from a mere 6 percent to around 85 percent. Most states now have laws making public education compulsory to the age of 16.

 

 

SOURCES:

Friends of Poquessing.org, “Dr. Benjamin Rush,” undated, friendsofpoquessing.org, http://www.friendsofpoquessing.org/Benjaminrush.html

 

Jefferson, Thomas, “Public education as the engine of republicanism,” Library of Congress, August 3, 2010, www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/jeffrep.html

 

Madison, James, Letter to William Taylor Berry, August 4, 1822, http://classicliberal.tripod.com/madison/barry.html

 

“Pennsylvania's University,” undated, The Franklin Institute, http://fi.edu/franklin/timeline/univpenn.html

 

Rush, Dr. Benjamin, “Thoughts Upon The Mode Of Education Proper In A Republic,” 1786, reproduced online at School Choices dot org, http://www.schoolchoices.org/roo/rush.htm

 

Shuford, Thomas, “Jefferson on Public Education: Defying Conventional Wisdom,” Education News, June 28, 2007, www.educationnews.org/articles/jefferson-on-public-education-defying-conventional-wisdom.html

 

Thatthai, Deeptha, “A History of Public Education in the United States,” undated, www.servintfree.net/~aidmn-ejournal/publications/2001-11/PublicEducationInTheUnitedStates.html

 

University of Chicago, Epilogue: Securing the Republic, “Noah Webster, On the Education of Youth in America,” 1788 (posted online 1987), http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch18s26.html

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Los padres fundadores: Sobre la importancia de la educación pública

Por Minnie Apolis

Cuando se trata de descubrir cuál es la opinión de los padres fundadores fue en el valor de la educación pública, que se convierte rápidamente en claro que considera esencial para la supervivencia de la forma democrática de gobierno - o para ser más precisos, nuestra forma de república democrática gobierno.Thomas Jefferson y James Madison tanto peso en el lado de apoyo para educar a las masas. Otros que vivieron en la misma época que también presionó para que la educación pública fueron Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Noah Webster, y Rush Benjamin.

Mientras que Thomas Jefferson intentó sin éxito convencer a la legislatura de Virginia para establecer un sistema de escuelas públicas - la propuesta de una generosa beca completa para el Colegio de William and Mary para un niño del barrio cada dos años - fue vehemente que la educación es esencial para la supervivencia del experimento americano. Sin embargo, permaneció durante Horace Mann para instituir las primeras escuelas públicas de la nación en el estado de Massachusetts, apenas sesenta años después.

Jefferson es citado diciendo que "Si una nación espera ser ignorante y libre, en un estado de civilización, espera lo que nunca fue y nunca lo será."

Proyecto de programa de Jefferson de los cursos fue de altos cargos en la historia, sino que incluye la escritura y la aritmética. El segmento de la lectura era casi en su totalidad formado por la historia "de la griega, la historia de Roma, Europa y Estados Unidos." Explica que la historia ", informando a los que en el pasado les permitirá juzgar el futuro, sino que les servirá de la experiencia de otros tiempos y otras naciones, sino que se los califica como los jueces de las acciones y designios de los hombres, sino que se les permita conocer la ambición en todos los disfrazados se puede asumir, y sabiendo que, para derrotar a sus puntos de vista (Jefferson, "Notas sobre el estado de Virginia ")."

Mientras que el presidente Jefferson puede parecer un poco optimista sobre el poder de la educación pública, para ser justos hay que admitir que su programa de cursos no se ha aplicado en los tiempos modernos, que haya más énfasis en los estudios sociales y la expresión.

Sin embargo, hay mucho que decir acerca de su enfoque de quitando la crema de la cosecha para la educación superior en los niveles superiores. La elección de que se avance sobre la base del mérito fue, según él, una herramienta para asegurar que el talento no se desperdicie. "En esa parte de nuestro plan que establece la selección de los jóvenes del genio de las clases de los pobres, esperamos aprovechar el estado de esos talentos que la naturaleza ha sembrado tan liberalmente entre los pobres como los ricos, sino que perecen sin uso, si no se solicita y cultivadas (Jefferson, "Notas sobre el estado de Virginia"). "

James Madison aplaudieron cuando el Estado de Kentucky asignó fondos para un sistema general de educación en 1822. En una carta a William Taylor Berry en agosto de ese año, afirmó que "un gobierno popular sin información popular o los medios de adquirirla, no es sino un prólogo a una farsa o una tragedia, o tal vez ambas cosas. El conocimiento siempre gobernará a la ignorancia, y las personas que quieren ser sus propios gobernantes deben armarse con el poder que da el conocimiento. "Después de declarar su interés particular en la observación de la evolución del estado de Kentucky, escribió que" su rápido crecimiento y la prosperidad de la señal que se ofrece ahora para el Estado un Plan de Educación que abarca toda clase de ciudadanos, y todos los grados y el departamento del Conocimiento. Ningún error es más cierto que el que procede de una visión desagradable y superficial de la materia: que la gente en general no tienen ningún interés en el establecimiento de las Academias, Colegios y Universidades, donde sólo unos pocos solamente, y no los de los más pobres las clases se pueden obtener para sus hijos las ventajas de la educación superior. Se cree que es injusto que todos deben someterse a imposición en beneficio de una parte, y eso también por lo menos la parte que lo necesiten. Si la provisión no se hicieron al mismo tiempo para cada parte, la objeción sería algo natural. Pero, además de la cuenta a la hora de los Seminarios mayores pertenecen a un plan de educación general, que es mejor para las clases más pobres a tener la ayuda de los más ricos por un impuesto general sobre la propiedad, de que todo padre debe proporcionar, a sus expensas propias ( sic) para la educación de sus hijos, lo cierto es que cada clase está interesado en los establecimientos que dan a la mente humana su mayor mejora, y para todos los países de su celebridad más auténtica y más duradero. "

Y haciéndose eco de la declaración de Thomas Jefferson que la democracia depende de una población educada, Madison afirmó que las instituciones "aprendidas. . . arrojar luz sobre la que la mente del público, que es la mejor seguridad contra las invasiones astuto y peligroso de la libertad pública ".

Madison señala que las naciones del mundo estaban viendo el experimento estadounidense con intereses."El pueblo estadounidense se deben a sí mismos, y que la causa del gobierno libre, para demostrar por sus establecimientos para la promoción y difusión del conocimiento, que sus instituciones políticas, que están atrayendo la observación de todas partes, y son respetados como los modelos, por los Estados recién nacidos en nuestro propio hemisferio, son tan favorables a la mejora intelectual y moral del hombre, ya que son conformes a sus derechos individuales y sociales. ¿Qué espectáculo puede ser más edificantes o estacionales más que el de la libertad y el aprendizaje, cada uno apoyándose en el otro para su mutuo apoyo y más seguro? "

Benjamin Franklin comenzó una alternativa a las escuelas de gramática latina basado en la creación de la Academia Americana en 1751 en su ciudad natal, Philadelphia. Este fue el comienzo de la escuela secundaria como lo conocemos ahora, con la instrucción principalmente en Inglés. (. La Academia más tarde se convirtió en la Universidad de Pennsylvania, la primera universidad moderna de artes liberales en el país) Se desempeñó como su presidente durante los primeros cinco años, Franklin también comenzó la primera biblioteca de préstamo de este tipo en Filadelfia.

Benjamin Rush, otra residente de Pennsylvania, fue considerado el padre de las escuelas públicas desde que fue el primero en avanzar en la idea de la educación pública y gratuita - la educación de los niños y las niñas, una idea radical para la época. Aunque de profesión médico, escribió el primer libro de texto de química estadounidense y participó en el debate público sobre muchos temas. Fiebre del sentido que la escuela debe enseñar a los sujetos de la historia, aritmética, lectura / escritura, la economía, la química, la poesía, la mitología, la música vocal y la religión, así como la educación física. "A pesar de que inculcar estos deberes republicana en nuestro alumno, no debemos descuidar, al mismo tiempo que le inspiran los principios re publicano. Se le debe enseñar que no puede haber libertad duradera, pero en una república y el gobierno que, como todas las demás ciencias, es de carácter progresivo. ", Escribió. El estudio de las lenguas muertas llamada era imprescindible, en su opinión, para el desarrollo de jóvenes profesionales de "la ley, la física o la divinidad."

Puede ser un alivio para los lectores modernos de esta página que Noah Webster no apoyó el fuerte énfasis en el aprendizaje de los discursos de los antiguos griegos y romanos. De Demóstenes y Cicerón escribió: "Estas son excelentes ejemplares de buen sentido, la oratoria brillante estilo y perfecto, pero no son interesantes para los niños. No puede ser muy útil, excepto para los jóvenes caballeros que lo deseen, como los modelos de razonamiento y elocuencia, en el púlpito o en el bar. "OK, así que ¿qué le proponen que el plan de estudios incluye? La historia, la historia sobre todo de América, además de geografía, "el conocimiento de la ética y los principios generales del derecho, el comercio, el dinero y el gobierno."

Una vez más, Webster se hace eco de la creencia de que una educación adecuada es la primera defensa contra la tiranía. "En los gobiernos despóticos, el pueblo debe tener poca o ninguna educación, excepto lo que tiende a inspirar con un temor servil. La información es fatal para el despotismo. . . En nuestras repúblicas americanas, donde [el gobierno] está en manos de la gente, el conocimiento debe ser universalmente difundida por medio de las escuelas públicas. "Él creía que" el conocimiento en general se difunde entre los pequeños propietarios importantes, la más perfecta será la las leyes de un Estado republicano ".

Como nota al margen, es interesante observar que según el historiador David McCullough, los Padres Fundadores estaban bien versados ​​en griego y latín, inmersos no sólo en el lenguaje, sino en la historia, los ideales y la filosofía de la mejor de las culturas. Jefferson, por ejemplo, "se inició el estudio del latín, griego y francés, a la edad de 9 bajo el reverendo James Maury, un hombre culto, en la mejor tradición clásica. . . [Y] asistió a William and Mary College de Williamsburg a los dieciséis años de edad. "En una carta que escribió a un amigo británico en 1800, Jefferson declaró que" el que a leer a los autores latinos y griegos en el idioma original es un lujo sublime, y yo consideren de lujo en la ciencia (la posesión de conocimientos) para ser al menos tan justificada como en la arquitectura, la pintura, la jardinería o las demás artes. "

Diametralmente opuesto a Jefferson fue Alexander Hamilton, que estaba al lado de una especie de darwinismo social en el que se justificaba la dominación de los ricos, como prueba de la superioridad de las clases altas.

También debe quedar claro que durante el período colonial (1600), la educación pública en el momento se parecía más a lo que hoy marca la educación parroquial. En las colonias de Nueva Inglaterra, en Massachusetts, Connecticut y New Hampshire, los niños fueron educados por las iglesias, que vieron el deber de enseñar a los niños a leer la Biblia (Inglés-lenguaje). Sino como una ola de inmigrantes de muchas naciones y credos llegó a oponerse a la aceptación forzada de una sola vista sancionado de mensaje de la Biblia. Como resultado, la enseñanza privada se había convertido en la norma en el siglo XVIII. Las escuelas privadas son libres de instruir en Inglés o en el idioma de la comunidad, o añadir los cursos de lenguas clásicas. Sin embargo, las mejores escuelas estaban disponibles sólo para las clases ricas, un estado de cosas que se convirtió en el blanco de reformadores como Horace Mann en Massachusetts.

En muchos sentidos, el formato del plan de estudios de secundaria moderna fue un éxito rotundo. La asistencia se disparó entre los adolescentes estadounidenses, desde 1900 hasta 1996 el porcentaje de adolescentes que se graduó de la escuela secundaria aumentó de sólo un 6 por ciento a alrededor del 85 por ciento. La mayoría de los estados ahora tienen leyes que establecen que la educación pública obligatoria a la edad de 16 años.

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Les pères fondateurs: De l'importance de l'éducation publique

Par Minnie Apolis

Quand il s'agit de découvrir ce que l'opinion des pères fondateurs a été sur la valeur de l'enseignement public, il devient rapidement évident qu'ils jugeaient essentiel à la survie de la forme de gouvernement démocratique - ou pour être plus précis, notre formulaire de République démocratique du gouvernement. Thomas Jefferson et James Madison tant pesé sur le côté du support complet pour éduquer les masses. D'autres qui ont vécu à la même époque qui a également poussé à l'éducation publique ont été de Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Noah Webster, et Benjamin Rush.

Alors que Thomas Jefferson a essayé et échoué à convaincre les parlementaires de Virginie à mettre en place un système d'écoles publiques - en proposant une généreuse bourse complète au Collège de William et Mary pour un enfant du quartier tous les deux ans - il a été véhémente que l'éducation était essentielle pour la survie de l'expérience américaine. Pourtant, il est resté pour Horace Mann à instituer les premières écoles publiques de la nation dans l'État du Massachusetts, une soixantaine d'années seulement plus tard.

Jefferson est cité comme disant que «Si une nation attend d'être ignorant et libre, dans un état de civilisation, elle s'attend à ce que n'a jamais été et ne le sera jamais."

Programme proposé de Jefferson de cours a été trop lourde sur l'histoire, mais inclus l'écriture et l'arithmétique. Le segment de lecture était presque entièrement composée de l'histoire »du grec, romain, l'histoire européenne et américaine." Il explique que "l'histoire en les renseignant sur le passé leur permettra de juger de l'avenir, il sera leur servira de l'expérience d'autres temps et d'autres nations, elle va les qualifier comme juges des actions et des conceptions des hommes, elle leur permettra de connaître l'ambition sous chaque déguisement qu'il peut assumer et le savoir, pour vaincre ses vues (Jefferson, «Notes sur la Etat de Virginie ")."

Alors que le président Jefferson peut sembler un peu optimiste quant à la puissance de l'enseignement public, pour être juste il faut admettre que son programme de cours n'a pas été appliquée dans les temps modernes, qu'il y ait davantage l'accent sur les études sociales et d'auto-expression.

Pourtant, il ya beaucoup à dire sur son approche de l'écrémage crème de la crème pour la formation continue aux niveaux supérieurs. Choisir qui feront progresser sur la base du mérite a été, selon lui, un outil pour s'assurer que les talents ne sont pas gaspillées. «En cette partie de notre plan qui prévoit la sélection des jeunes de génie de la classe des pauvres, nous espérons pouvoir bénéficier de l'état de ces talents dont la nature a semé aussi libéralement les pauvres comme les riches, mais qui périra sans utilisation, si elle n'est pas recherchée et cultivée (Jefferson, «Notes sur l'État de Virginie"). "

James Madison a applaudi lorsque l'Etat du Kentucky alloué des fonds pour un système général d'éducation en 1822. Dans une lettre à William Taylor Berry en août de cette année, il a déclaré qu '«un gouvernement populaire, sans informations populaires ou les moyens de l'acquérir, n'est qu'un prologue à une farce ou une tragédie, ou peut-être deux. La connaissance gouvernera toujours l'ignorance, et un peuple qui signifie d'être leurs propres gouverneurs, doit s'armer du pouvoir que donne la connaissance. "Après avoir déclaré son intérêt particulier dans l'observation de l'évolution de l'état du Kentucky, il écrivait que« sa croissance rapide et la prospérité du signal qui est maintenant fournir à l'Etat un plan d'éducation englobant toutes les classes de citoyens, et chaque grade et département de la Connaissance. Aucune erreur n'est plus certaine que la procédure engagée par une vue désagréable et superficielle du sujet: que les gens en général n'ont aucun intérêt à la création des académies et des Collèges et Universités, où seuls quelques-uns seulement, et ceux qui n'ont pas les pauvres classes peuvent obtenir pour leurs fils les avantages de l'éducation supérieure. Il est pensé pour être injuste que tous devraient être taxés pour le bénéfice d'une partie, et que trop moins la partie qui en ont besoin. Si la fourniture n'ont pas été faites dans le même temps pour chaque partie, l'opposition serait un naturel. Mais, outre l'examen lorsque les séminaires supérieur appartiennent à un plan d'enseignement général, qu'il est préférable pour les classes les plus pauvres d'avoir l'aide des plus riches par une taxe générale sur la propriété, que tout parent devrait offrir à ses dépens ( sic) pour l'éducation de ses enfants, il est certain que chaque classe est intéressé dans les établissements qui donnent à l'esprit humain le plus élevé des améliorations, et à chaque pays sa célébrité la plus vraie et la plus durable. "

Et en écho déclaration de Thomas Jefferson que la démocratie repose sur une population instruite, Madison a déclaré que les institutions «savantes. . . jeter la lumière sur l'esprit public, qui est la meilleure sécurité contre les empiétements rusé et dangereux sur la liberté publique ».

Madison note que les nations du monde ont regardé l'expérience américaine avec intérêt. "Le peuple américain se doivent, et à la cause du gouvernement libre, de prouver par leurs établissements pour l'avancement et la diffusion des connaissances, que leurs institutions politiques, qui attirent l'observation de chaque trimestre, et sont respectés comme des modèles, par aux États-nés dans notre propre hémisphère, sont aussi favorables à l'amélioration intellectuelle et morale de l'homme tels qu'ils sont conformes à ses droits individuels et sociaux. Quel spectacle plus édifiant ou plus de saison, que celui de la liberté et l'apprentissage, chacun s'appuyant sur l'autre pour leur mutuelle et le soutien le plus sûr? "

Benjamin Franklin a commencé une alternative aux écoles de grammaire latine en créant de l'American Academy en 1751 dans sa ville natale, Philadelphie. Ce fut le début de l'école secondaire que nous la connaissons aujourd'hui, avec l'instruction principalement en anglais. (. L'Académie est devenu plus tard l'Université de Pennsylvanie, le premier collège d'arts libéraux modernes dans le pays), il fut le président pendant les cinq premières années; Franklin a également commencé à la bibliothèque de prêt première du genre à Philadelphie.

Benjamin Rush, un autre Pennsylvanie, a été considéré comme le père de l'école publique depuis qu'il a été le premier à avancer l'idée d'une éducation publique gratuite - l'éducation pour les garçons et les filles, une idée radicale à l'époque. Bien que de profession de médecin, il a écrit le manuel de chimie premier Américain et a pris part au débat public sur de nombreuses questions. Rush a estimé que l'école devrait enseigner les matières de l'histoire, l'arithmétique, la lecture / écriture, de l'économie, la chimie, de la poésie, la mythologie, la musique vocale et de religion, ainsi que l'éducation physique. «Bien que nous inculquer ces fonctions républicaines sur notre élève, nous ne devons pas négliger dans le même temps à lui inspirer des principes re publicain. Il faut lui apprendre qu'il ne peut y avoir de liberté durable, mais dans une république et que le gouvernement, comme toutes les autres sciences, est de nature progressive. "Écrit-il. L'étude des langues dites mortes était impératif, à son avis, au développement de jeunes praticiens du «droit, physique ou la divinité."

Il peut être un soulagement pour les lecteurs modernes de cette page que Noé Webster n'a pas appuyé l'accent sur l'apprentissage du discours des anciens Grecs et Romains. De Démosthène et de Cicéron, il écrivait: «Ce sont d'excellents spécimens de bon sens, poli oratoire stile et parfait, mais ils ne sont pas intéressants pour les enfants. Ils ne peuvent pas être très utile, sauf pour les jeunes messieurs qui en veulent comme des modèles de raisonnement et d'éloquence, dans la chaire ou au bar. "OK, alors qu'est-ce qu'il propose que le programme inclut-il? Histoire, histoire essentiellement américaine, ainsi que la géographie », une connaissance de l'éthique et aux principes généraux du droit, du commerce, de l'argent et le gouvernement."

Encore une fois, Webster fait écho à la conviction que l'éducation appropriée est la première défense contre la tyrannie. «Dans les gouvernements despotiques, les gens devraient avoir peu ou pas instruits, sauf ce qui tend à leur inspirer une crainte servile. L'information est fatale au despotisme. . . Dans nos républiques américaines, où [le gouvernement] est entre les mains du peuple, les connaissances doivent être universellement répandu par le biais des écoles publiques. "Il croyait que« les connaissances, plus généralement, se diffuse parmi les yeomen substantiel, le plus parfait sera le lois d'un État républicain. "

Comme une note côté, il est intéressant de noter que selon l'historien David McCullough, les Pères fondateurs étaient tous bien versé dans le grec et le latin, imprégné non seulement dans la langue mais dans l'histoire, les idéaux et la philosophie des meilleurs de ces cultures. Jefferson, par exemple, "a commencé l'étude du latin, le grec et le français à l'âge de 9 ans sous le révérend James Maury, un homme instruit, dans la plus pure tradition classique. . . [Et] a assisté William and Mary College à Williamsburg moins seize ans. "Dans une lettre qu'il écrivit à un ami britannique en 1800, Jefferson a déclaré que" que de lire les auteurs latins et grecs dans leur version originale est un luxe sublime, et je jugent de luxe dans la science (la possession de connaissances) pour être au moins aussi justifiée que dans l'architecture, la peinture, le jardinage ou les autres arts. "

Diamétralement opposé à Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, qui se tenait sur le côté d'une sorte de darwinisme social dans lequel la domination des riches a été justifiée comme une preuve de la supériorité des classes supérieures.

En outre, il devrait être clair que pendant la période coloniale (les années 1600), l'éducation publique à l'époque était plus proche de ce nous avons maintenant l'étiquette d'éducation paroissiale. Dans les colonies de la Nouvelle Angleterre, dans le Massachusetts, le Connecticut et le New Hampshire, les enfants ont été éduqués par les églises, qui ont vu un devoir d'enseigner aux enfants à lire la Bible (en anglais). Mais comme une marée d'immigrants en provenance de nombreuses nations et confessions venu de s'opposer à l'acceptation forcée d'un seul point de vue sanctionnée d'un message de la Bible. En conséquence, l'enseignement privé était devenue la norme par le XVIIIe siècle. Les écoles privées étaient libres de demander, en anglais ou la langue de la communauté, ou d'ajouter des cours de langues classiques.Cependant, les meilleures écoles n'étaient disponibles que pour les classes aisées, un état de choses qui sont devenues la cible des réformateurs comme Horace Mann dans le Massachusetts.

À bien des égards le format du curriculum des écoles secondaires modernes a été un succès retentissant. La fréquentation monté en flèche chez les adolescents américains, de 1900 à 1996 le pourcentage d'adolescents ayant obtenu leur diplôme d'études secondaires est passée de seulement 6 pour cent à environ 85 pour cent. La plupart des États ont maintenant des lois faisant de l'éducation publique obligatoire à l'âge de 16 ans.

 

 

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MinnieApolis

Let it be known that we are not going to stand for anyone putting any other words into the mouths of the real founding fathers.

  • 22 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:31 PM EDT
Ronko

Brava, Minnie, brava excellent article and excellent read especially as we stand on the cusp of the destruction of the public education system by nefarious forces bent on destroying our government and way of life for the profit of the few.

Voted up.

PS: Oh, and a rather loud and unpleasantly wet raspberry for Alexander Hamilton.

  • 16 votes
#1.1 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:04 PM EDT
grumpy_jon

It also makes sense of why Hamilton is such a hero to the Right. We have disagreements about how education should be administered in this country, but it is good to hear the words of truth on and from the Founders of this country. I note that most emphasized American History; I have a high interest in that and commonly use it in debate. If only so many more did with at least a thimble's full of knowledge..../bemoaning.

  • 12 votes
#1.2 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:29 PM EDT
wmolaw

Hamilton to the right?

We could debate that.

  • 4 votes
#1.3 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:00 PM EDT
OneNativeSon

Excellent read...

Another example of how the founders of our nation were NOT the kinds of TEAple the right tries so strenuously to rewrite history into promoting them as being.

The far right has been adamantly against public education since the early 1800's in one of it's earliest incarnations. Some things never change. Our modern version of the far right has sought to destroy public education through the death by a thousand cuts (not just budget cuts) method for decades. Hurt public education - point at it and say "See! It's failing!" - just so they will be allowed to hurt it more. You know... the types who vociferously want to dismantle public education have simply become the very center of the GOP rather than a far fringe nutwing element of the party. The further right they move the more left everyone else seems to "conservatives".

Thanks for taking the time Minnieapolis.

This is important information and needs wider dissemination. There's nothing more conducive to a well functioning Democracy than an electorate capable of critical thinking skills.

  • 15 votes
#1.4 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:25 PM EDT
wmolaw

Bias will never assist in furthering the cause of public education, period.

Collective bargaining on the part of government employees will never further the cause of public education, period.

Trying to blame others for problems won't further the cause of public education.

Spending useless dollars, contributing to corruption, greed with not further the cause of public education.

Public education is in danger because of all these things, and because of a general idea among parents that, somehow, the education of their children should be left to faceless, nameless "schools."

Public education is absolutely, 100% needed, but not if it is actually DETRIMENTAL to educating our children. If it is the problem, all of us need to fix it, not try to blame others, or create further divide or bias.

  • 9 votes
#1.5 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:32 PM EDT
Truth Sleuth

Excellent, Minnie. Inspiring, and well done!

  • 8 votes
#1.6 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:50 AM EDT
Waterwynd

Stellar Minnie. Thank you. We're clipping.

  • 5 votes
#1.7 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:08 AM EDT
WoodieRae-3499404

To play devil's advocate here, some other nations feel the reason we originate so many fresh ideas are because we do not become complacent about higher education, as those who provide all the education for free. We pay for it, and we honor it. But I don't necessarily agree.

Our dumbing down of America is directly related to the deteriorating primary schooling programs and our loss of focus. In the good old days, we didn't program every creative moment of our students' days, channeling them into consumers rather than inventors.

My dad came home from school, and after milking cows, he'd build a helicopter, or try to make an engine run. He took a ceramic bird and drilled its eyes out, replacing them with lights that flickered on when the mailbox at the end of the driveway opened. I sat and taught myself Peter de Rose's Deep Purple when I was a kid and memorized it. It was still there, until menopause...

I fear my own kids are being programmed to be cogs in a machine, rather than machine builders.

  • 4 votes
#1.8 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:16 PM EDT
MinnieApolis

THANK YOU, all of you, for stopping, reading and making me feel that my time was not wasted after all. This is an issue that I just know is going to be talked about during the upcoming election cycle and I wanted to get this out there, now. Thanks again and if you can pass on a link or whatever to to your friends, or put it at the bottom of your signature on emails, or anything at all, I would so much appreciate it.

  • 7 votes
#1.9 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:56 PM EDT
abolish taxes

LOL,the right wing is just trying to level the playing field by hoping to make everyone else as stupid as they are.

  • 6 votes
#1.10 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:01 PM EDT
wmolaw

Woodie:

I agree.

  • 3 votes
#1.11 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:18 PM EDT
Jesse-Az

Nice round facts that you have put into your strawman. Just because the right wants state control of education, does not mean it is against public education. I'm making an assumption that you are liberal, and therefore for increased spending. Let's just take a look at education vs spending shall we?

http://simplecomplexity.net/education-achievement-data/

Hmm... I somehow don't think equating spending to education is the variable we should take here. If you want real changes, look at the studies found in Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers". It goes on to show that money is not the answer, but time spent in school. The achievement gap between "rich and poor" schools is summarily explained away when accounting for education efforts during the Summer Break. Let me reiterate, school spending does not matter. Kids learn equally in poor or rich schools during the school year. Poor kids lose out on education during the summer. This is backed up with studies (I would cite specifics, but I don't have Malcolm's book around me).

So keep your strawmen to yourselves, it makes you look ignorant.

  • 7 votes
#1.12 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:23 PM EDT
Reply
sjayne2355

I don't believe that the founding fathers would think very highly of what passes for education in today's government schools...

  • 9 votes
Reply#2 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:24 PM EDT
euterpe-1641499

Disagree. During their time education was afforded only to the few; which is why they placed such value on the need for it to be available to all. Our system isn't perfect, but it is available to every child. This is a great step forward from the time of the founding fathers; but I agree that we must continue to strive to make it better.

  • 11 votes
#2.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:10 AM EDT
Reply
tyler-1708225

#2. My thoughts exactly.

  • 5 votes
Reply#3 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:27 PM EDT
wjm5-0

OOPs, accidentally voted Tyler up. This is not to discount the opinion of the poster.

No disrespect in disagreeing.

Personally, I believe that political science and economics should be taught as requirements so that by the time a child graduates, they will be fully aware of how these two matters are totally necessary to make the best personal decisions once they become adults.

Keeping the population dumbed down or neglibly educated does not speak well for the future of this country.

Everytime we talk about the future generations, and then do nothing to guarantee a free and applicable education at the expense of the taxpayers who these children are born to, then we are literally spitting in the wind.

Dealing in global markets and new technology has to be answered through education. Word of mouth, or narrow-minded thoughts on how the nations' children should be educated will not make our future heirs qualified to meet the demands of tomorrow, or even today. I read an article that stated that there are at least 2 or 3 million jobs available that the young people applying for them are not qualified to fill the positions. I wonder why?

If there are so many being home-schooled or in private schools, and it is so successful, then why was this information about lack of qualifications being reported?

Education should be about answering the needs for innovation, new technology, and enturprenurship. If primary education needs are not met, there is no way to meet these challenges.

The leaders of the past spoke on what was republican ideals and that public education for the masses was the best way for this country to present a fresh perspective to the world's views on how America could surely be a successful land of opportunity. Yet, today's Republican Party is showing to be the antithesis of their predecessors.

Such a shame. The current crop of Republicans aiming to hold that high position that was held by their predecessors are not showing any evidence of inheriting those leaders' schools of thought. They actually want to kill what was recommended and put in place for generations of Americans to achieve the American Dream.

This American Dream was not acheived through inherited wealth, it was done by less than wealthy Americans being aided able to pull themselves up by their public education bootstraps.

Thanks, MinneApolis. This is indeed a great read and much needed food for thought. I appreciate it, and so would Michelle Ree.

  • 7 votes
#3.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:41 PM EDT
Reply
Atsidi

Really can't say much but to echo the sentiment.

  • 6 votes
Reply#4 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:30 PM EDT
Steve-2081387

Its more like we are babysitting than educating.

  • 5 votes
Reply#5 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:37 PM EDT
Venator

Good read. Well done on the research.

An unfortunate far cry from our current educational system.

  • 6 votes
Reply#6 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:48 PM EDT
wmolaw

Great article. As with other posters, I echo the sentiment that our pre-college educational system is, in many respects, letting us down.

But so are parents.

  • 8 votes
Reply#7 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:05 PM EDT
Dowser

Great article!

I think of my grandparents, for whom public education only went to 8th grade. They felt that their daughter graduating from a 4 year high school was fantastic. And then, their granddaughter went to college, but it cost her father an arm and leg... and now their great-granddaughter...

I know we have problems, but I'm not ready to ditch the whole thing, by any means.

  • 14 votes
Reply#8 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:06 PM EDT
Jackie-2759125

Again, Webster echoes the belief that proper education is the first defense against tyranny. "In despotic governments, the people should have little or no education, except what tends to inspire them with a servile fear. Information is fatal to despotism . . . In our American republics, where [government] is in the hands of the people, knowledge should be universally diffused by means of public schools." He believed that "the more generally knowledge is diffused among the substantial yeomanry, the more perfect will be the laws of a republican state."

Great article. Isn't it interesting how every time budget cuts come down they attack public education? I don't think it's a coincidence. Keep us poor, stupid and silent.

  • 10 votes
Reply#9 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:16 PM EDT
wmolaw

Jackie:

Well, it is an easy target as it is not performing very well.

The president of UGA spoke to my Rotary Club a week or so ago and discussed the commitment to public education, at the college level our State has.

Georgia's Hope Scholarship is, well, amazing!

  • 6 votes
#9.1 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:29 PM EDT
j. johnson-3157491

hello all, hate to be the fly in the buttermilk here, and in no way condoning t-'ers and right, but could it be they are interpreting more to the atmosphere at that time (founder's) there were no minorities then the only other's were American Indian's and the 3/5 th's. there for by virtue of that period education would only be for like person's. we all know how they usurped the Bible versus's and laws to embrace their ideologies. could this be correct in content, for them to obstruct and deny educational advantage to at the time a nonexistent enity. over interpretation of the intent, with a radical sense of correctness?

  • 5 votes
#9.2 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:16 AM EDT
Truth Sleuth

Yes, I think there was obviously a lot of rationalizing going on before, during and after the writing of the Constitution for keeping and condoning slavery.

However, it was decided a long time ago that slavery was a denial of natural human rights.

No one has the right to enslave another human and take the fruits of his labor as one's own. Not then, and not now. It was a violation of rights then. And it is now.

  • 7 votes
#9.3 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:15 AM EDT
blackheywood

[hello all, hate to be the fly in the buttermilk here, and in no way condoning t-'ers and right, but could it be they are interpreting more to the atmosphere at that time (founder's) there were no minorities then the only other's were American Indian's and the 3/5 th's. there for by virtue of that period education would only be for like person's.]

I was going to point that out, but passed.Thank you for pointing it out because your words are true. I believe the education system is worse for minorities in America than for the majority. I also believe this done intentionally and by design. Kudos to you

  • 8 votes
#9.4 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:07 AM EDT
Truth Sleuth

I also believe this done intentionally and by design...

Maybe it is. I can't prove it one way or the other. It seems though that two minorities (blacks and Hispanics)--not all minorities obviously--get short shrift because they live in districts that don't generate the property tax revenue that other districts do. It seems it's not necessarily the "minority" status that's key, since Asians are minorities too. Rather, it seems to be socioeconomic status, driven by performance, and then results, that's key. And, obviously, there's an ongoing cycle of success, or failure as the case may be, in that scenario.

Again, this is only observational and anecdotal on my part.

Good to see you, blackheywood.

  • 6 votes
#9.5 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:17 AM EDT
wmolaw

More slavery today than there was then, which is what amazes me. But it just doesn't intrude on most of the lives of those who reside in the West.

It exists in Africa, Asia mostly and the rest of the World just closes their eyes to it.

Scary stuff.

  • 4 votes
#9.6 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:26 AM EDT
blackheywood

[Good to see you, blackheywood.]

Ditto

[More slavery today than there was then, which is what amazes me.]

You cannot include global Slavery then or now with US SLAVERY. No other group was enslaved for as long as Slaves were in America, as well as no other group had laws created to disenfranchise them for centuries After Slavery ended than in America. Jim Crow began in 1867 and legally ended in 1965. That is one of the differences of why no comparison can be made about Slavery.

  • 4 votes
#9.7 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:09 PM EDT
MinnieApolis

I do of course realize that our young people suffer because the schools all too often dumb down the curriculum rather than pushing our kids to keep trying and to tackle the hard stuff. Look at the famous example of the kids in East L.A. who were pushed to excel at calculus ("Stand and Deliver"). Yet there are schools who are resisting the easy way out, and offer good programs and expose the kids to classic literature and heavy doses of history and writing and math.

And the point about the parents defaulting on their role is well-taken. My parents felt that our JOB, as the kids, was to get an education -- since we had the luxury (yes, the LUXURY!) of free schooling. We had to do our homework, and doing well in classes was a goal for everyone not just the smartest kids.

And if YOU are in school now, and not the best student in the world at this or that, KEEP PLUGGING AWAY at it. Eventually everything falls into place and you go, oh yeah, I see what they mean now.

  • 7 votes
#9.8 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:04 PM EDT
j. johnson-3157491

hello MinnieApolis how are you? great #9.8 you are right there has been that dumb down mentality of urban school teacher not of color and an frustrated indifference by those of color. not as many believer's in the kids as should be. parents too, if there is no inspired motivation and the one's they are taught to look up to are poo pooing on your future station in life what do the adults think? more crime and yes disenfranchisement kids feel it too. this has been cultivated from the beginning. no public help cancel led programs and the one's that never made it to fruition. keep 'em dumb and they''ll keep you in power even though they only throw a crust of bread and such, help your self but don't take to much. "God bless the child" lyrics, accept there's no blessing in a racist controlled gov't >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apartheid or are they trying to install a neo apartheid system to keep that status quo they've become so fond of.

  • 3 votes
#9.9 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:31 PM EDT
Reply
newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

Congratulations on a well researched and written article. I rarely find anyone who quotes the Founders accurately, in particular, Thomas Jefferson.

  • 11 votes
Reply#10 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:40 PM EDT
MinnieApolis

Don't we all know it! How does some legislator (who shall remain nameless) get off telling people that the F.F. corrected the original error slavery? That did not get straightened out till the Civil War, 1860. Oh well, creative history 101, is what that is.

  • 4 votes
#10.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:08 PM EDT
newdayDAWNING...RETURNED

Ah yes, that legislator, I am sorry to say, is from my state. So embarrassed!

  • 2 votes
#10.2 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:49 PM EDT
Reply
blackheywood

A public education is not good enough for our American child. A QUALITY Public education should be mandatory for ALL CHILDREN OF AMERICAN CITIZENS,who are American citizens themselves. That's what we should demand as taxpayers and citizens of our government. It's unfortunate that our system cannot demand that parents or guardians be the active supportive and involved parents that is also needed to educate our children. This is of own making as a nation, our children failure in school is direct reflection on our country and us as citizens. -Thank you

  • 9 votes
Reply#11 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:43 PM EDT
MinnieApolis

Point well taken. Parents have a job to do too, in insisting that homework be done, and that school be taken seriously.

  • 5 votes
#11.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:05 PM EDT
wmolaw

And in being sure that the curriculum taught is challenging!

  • 5 votes
#11.2 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:20 PM EDT
MinnieApolis

Parents can do so much by just insisting that their kids sign up for more than just "Study Hall", "Geography", "Easy Math Any Idiot Can Do with a Calculator", --- and no science or lit or history or anything challenging.

  • 1 vote
#11.3 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Reply
mstanley2265

Very well written article kudos!! Minnieapolis

  • 8 votes
Reply#12 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:37 PM EDT
MinnieApolis

Blushing down to my toes. But I'm gratified that people are reading this, and I hope thinking about all these ideas.

  • 4 votes
#12.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:06 PM EDT
Reply
etva

Excellent article, Minnie! Education is one of the most important things a society can do for its future.

  • 8 votes
Reply#13 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:39 PM EDT
MinnieApolis

Amen, etva.

  • 6 votes
#13.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:06 PM EDT
Reply
Scott (Scoop) Butki

Great piece, Minnie. I'm clipping it to my column and newsviner's picks

  • 6 votes
Reply#14 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:36 PM EDT
mstanley2265

Hey Scoop, have you written any more of your story lately? No pressure...:) and that reminds me clipping to NewsVine Honor Vine.

  • 4 votes
#14.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:03 AM EDT
Scott (Scoop) Butki

no i haven't - it's on hiatus still. sorry.

  • 2 votes
#14.2 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:47 PM EDT
mstanley2265

is all good, I'm proofing a book for someone anyway. :) so got a story to read. plus an Amy Tan book to read...sighhh

  • 3 votes
#14.3 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:55 PM EDT
Reply
MalamuteMan

GREAT article Minnie! I fail to understand how anyone can make a compelling argument against good well funded public education.

  • 9 votes
Reply#15 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:07 AM EDT
mstanley2265

Because they nitpick and they don't compare it to another nation like China which invests heavily in education. :)

  • 8 votes
#15.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:13 AM EDT
tyler-1708225

"I fail to understand how anyone can make a compelling argument against good well funded public education."

And there in lies the problems. What is good education these days, where is the money going, and why, no matter how much is changed/spent, it is still not keeping up.

  • 4 votes
#15.2 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:08 PM EDT
MinnieApolis

Well, people have to take some interest in the boring school board meetings - but who goes to them when you can sit at home watching Survivor or Extreme Makeover???

  • 5 votes
#15.3 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:09 PM EDT
mstanley2265

or Desperate Housewives, not that they couldn't tape them, it's just an excuse.

  • 5 votes
#15.4 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:55 PM EDT
Reply
digcreation

Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

George Washington, Farewell Address to the Nation 1798

  • 6 votes
Reply#16 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:59 AM EDT
MinnieApolis

THANK YOU, dig. I had trouble finding Georgie's opinions on education since my search kept listing schools named after him.

  • 5 votes
#16.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:10 PM EDT
Reply
samenslow

What was the very early law? One acre of a section of land was to produce funds for education?

  • 2 votes
Reply#17 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:47 AM EDT
CapnJohnSmith

It was the Land Ordinance of 1785.

Section 16 of a township was for generation of funds for the maintenance of public schools.

  • 3 votes
#17.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:47 AM EDT
samenslow

Thanks. Long time since US history!

  • 2 votes
#17.2 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:50 AM EDT
MinnieApolis

THANK YOU, Captain!

  • 2 votes
#17.3 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:11 PM EDT
CapnJohnSmith

You guys are welcome.

  • 2 votes
#17.4 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:08 PM EDT
Reply
DocPhil

wonderful article..... thank you for an informative and eye opening look into the minds of our founding fathers..... you provided a service to all of us on the vine.

  • 7 votes
Reply#18 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:05 AM EDT
euterpe-1641499

A wonderful, informative article, thank you. Public education is the cornerstone of a thriving society. But the rest of the world followed our example and improved upon it. We have a long way to go to build upon the dreams entrusted to us by our founding fathers.

  • 6 votes
Reply#19 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:13 AM EDT
euterpe-1641499

FYI MinnieApolis - clipped this to my column and to Historical Vine. Hope more people get a chance to read this. Thanks again!

  • 4 votes
#19.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:10 PM EDT
MinnieApolis

THANK YOU, euterpe!

    #19.2 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:14 PM EDT
    Reply
    clarke ong

    Jefferson actually funded the first 2 free public schools, open to everyone, in D.C, with 200 dollars out of his own pocket along with a few other benefactors.

    • 9 votes
    Reply#20 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:45 AM EDT
    MinnieApolis

    Now there's a great factoid that I missed out on. Thanks, clarke.

    • 3 votes
    #20.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:12 PM EDT
    Daniel_Paul

    Private funds for public schools is a great idea. Nothing in this action defends the stance that he believed it should be federally funded and run.

    • 3 votes
    #20.2 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:23 PM EDT
    sjayne2355

    Private funds for public schools is a great idea

    Don't most taxpayers use "private funds" to support public schools...isn't it called property taxes?

    • 4 votes
    #20.3 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:44 PM EDT
    mstanley2265

    IMO that Daniel is addressing companies like Microsoft that invest in schools.

    • 3 votes
    #20.4 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:49 PM EDT
    Daniel_Paul

    Don't most taxpayers use "private funds" to support public schools...isn't it called property taxes?

    With taxpayers it is done by force, the example above with Thomas Jefferson was an act of free will. Nothing here defends the position that Thomas Jefferson would approve of a federally funded, centrally managed dept. of ed. That is the point I'm making.

    • 3 votes
    #20.5 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:37 PM EDT
    clarke ong

    Maybe not Daniel but can you tell me what the relative qualities in education would be if Public Schools were privately funded, for instance, how would education in rural Mississippi compare with education in lets say Urban New Hampshire, or Connecticut?

    Private funding unless compelled, virtually guarantees educational inequality.

    Seems like a no-brainer to me, but what are your views on that?

    • 5 votes
    #20.6 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:15 PM EDT
    Daniel_Paul

    State funded education would be my answer. This is the model that was used when America was achieving the best results relative to other nations. I mention private funding here only in response to the person that commented on how Jefferson funded schools and I'm making the point that this doesn't mean he was in favor of a centrally funded federal department of education, it just means he thinks education is important and he liked to personally help the cause of education, but without forcing those views on an entire nation and asking them to all have his same personal values.

    • 2 votes
    #20.7 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:01 PM EDT
    sjayne2355

    Daniel_Paul,

    I am with you...I completely agree that education is best went it is controlled locally. The Feds have no business in education.

    Since the creation of the Department of Education, we have lost ground as a country in the area of education. It has become so bad, that I personally feel that if you send your children to government schools you are committing child abuse.

    If all you want for your children is mediocrity, fine, but I expect far more from mine...

    • 1 vote
    #20.8 - Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:34 AM EDT
    MinnieApolis

    This is totally off topic, well not totally but tangential. Did you know that earliest colleges were built with funds from state lotteries? Yale, Harvard I believe, and definitely College of William and Mary were built off of lottery money.

    • 2 votes
    #20.9 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:15 PM EDT
    Reply
    j. johnson-3157491

    blackheywood how are you my future friend, thank you one difference i think we are the majority if we all come together, i wrote on my blog, i really believe this is attainable. my younger brother's name is Haywood an he's black sol(smiling out loud)

    Sunday, June 5, 2011

    MINORITY TO MAJORITY

    Hi, what needs to happen here and around the world all so called minorities should come together even though there are some different needs basically us against them is our common strength all these things they are "TRYING TO IMPOSE THEIR WAY OF LIFE ON US" are one in the same do this, embrace each other then wake up next day check media SEE WHO THE NEW MINORITY IS

    Posted by nick johnson at 1:12 PM

    • 3 votes
    Reply#21 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:09 PM EDT
    samenslow

    The American populist movement ran into a similar problem when trying to unite poor Americans. The poor had common interests be they "Trailer Trash" or "N&^&$rs". The problem is getting them to work for common gaols was the trailer trash could say, "I may be trailer trash, but, at least, I ain't no N..." Shame, but the same situation affects minorities all over the world and people who should be working together do not for this stupid reason..They are at least better than....

    • 4 votes
    #21.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:23 PM EDT
    j. johnson-3157491

    defiantly a point how are you? that is sadly the monkey wrench in the works, barring a miracle, still holding out for one,this may only manifest in this seemingly color blind generation coming through now. stay strong God Bless

    • 1 vote
    #21.2 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:51 AM EDT
    Reply
    ad*Deleted
    DLMaston

    Minnie,

    Very nice article! Very nice! Receiving a good quality education is paramount to raising intelligent, well reasoned adults.

    However....let us NOT....not for one nano-second.....even begin to pretend that the Founders, or anybody else, supported a federally controlled education system.

    No, no, no, no, no.....

    There are literally tons of data to support the fact that since the creation of the modern version of the Department of Education, elevated to a cabinet level position by former Pres. Jimmy Carter, the quality of education has fallen DRAMATICALLY in this nation.

    Our education system, when run and controlled on a city by city, state by state basis....was the finest education system in the world.

    Today...we are far, far from it.

    Nobody cares MORE about the quality of the education a child receives that its parents. Next to that, it is the community.
    When you put federal bureaucrats in charge of ANYTHING (practically), it gets worse....not better.

    Too much pandering to the lowest common denominator, and too much focus on "no child left behind"! What nonsense!
    I child should take as long to go through school as it takes for them to learn. No false degrees....no false diplomas.....only real education!!

    Yes, yes, yes.....we need to raise the level of education our nation's children receive! No question about it! And THE best way to do that is to take it back OUT of the hands of the government, and back into the hands of the local communities and the states!!

    • 5 votes
    Reply#23 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:32 PM EDT
    clarke ong

    I beg to differ because education in the deep south was virtually non-existent and what did exist was vastly inferior to what transpired after the Dept. of Education.

    • 3 votes
    #23.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:26 PM EDT
    sjayne2355

    Clark,

    I was educated in the "deep South" long before the creation of the Department of Education...my parents sacrificed to send my siblings and me to Catholic schools. Where we grew up that wasn't easy.

    We all graduated from very good colleges.

    The old saying goes, "Where there is a will, there is a way."

    • 1 vote
    #23.2 - Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:40 AM EDT
    DLMaston

    I too was educated in the South (Texas) in the days before the creation of the Department of Education, and went to public schools to boot.
    I also have the unique perspective of having gone back now....at the age of 47....to finish my PhD in Sociology. Therefore, I have seen first hand what the education system was then, and is now.

    And let me make this perfectly clear, Clark......my friend, there is NO comparison!! The schools I attended were MUCH better in teaching overall academics, they were MUCH tougher in terms of requirements and were, therefore, MUCH more demanding of students than most school districts are now.

    The writing skills (or lack thereof) in the average college freshman is simply deplorable. The only skills they come in with are math skills and a bit of science. Otherwise, the average college student comes into college unprepared, under-educated, and full of narcissism. They have no clue about Civics....because they no longer teach Civics in high school, they have no clue about Political Science, and the majority are seriously lacking in the knowledge of factual history....not to mention little to no knowledge of music or art.

    When I returned to college a couple of years ago, I was stunned! Absolutely stunned! I could not believe what I was seeing! I was, and still am, appalled!

    • 5 votes
    #23.3 - Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:52 AM EDT
    j. johnson-3157491

    hello DL how are you? short and sweet i agree with you the depreciation of the public school system is a designed effort to keep so called minority's dumbed down. Catholic schools and such are private schools of course education bar is higher, disenfranchised neighborhoods are inherently left to squalor with no desire by gov'ts to raise their standard. a so called lower class is needed by those who create the travesty of laws, as a point to justify the pillaging of the scraps they throw to those communities. then by stealing most of the endowments they can say the project was a failure. then pave the way for privatization, the right goal all the long, keep 'em down on the farm and in the ghetto. IMO NeoApartheid. i need to stop saying short and sweet. lol stay strong God Bless

    • 2 votes
    #23.4 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:11 AM EDT
    Reply
    Daniel_Paul

    I missed the part where the founding father's said it should be centrally managed by the federal government. You missed the part where it says all powers not granted in The Constitution will be left to the states. The only thing is that the part you missed exists, and the part I missed doesn't exist...

    • 4 votes
    Reply#24 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:22 PM EDT
    wmolaw

    There is that, I would agree that education should NOT be run by the feds, period.

    • 4 votes
    #24.1 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
    clarke ong

    Aside from funding, how does the federal governmaent "run" education?

    Where is school curriculum decided, or, at what level?

    How are school officials chosen?

    Who does the hiring of teachers?

    • 4 votes
    #24.2 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:28 PM EDT
    wjm5-0

    clarke ong

    You ask pertinent questions, and no one who opposes public education gave you notice.

    Reason being, most of what you said is enacted on the state level. Even in Texas and Tennessee, and no telling where else we have Republican majorities at the state level where they are attempting and apparently having some success at changing American History as we know it.

    What is this crap being bandied about concerning the slave trade and how it should be changed to some sort of international trade route? And though no one is attempting to remind Americans how white america exploited and enslaved others, and even mistreated the Native Americans, in Tennessee there is an effort underway to present those realities in a 'kinder, less abrasive' nature by choosing to exempt certain words such as slaves and internment camps. Why is this even necessary? What would it change in the face of reality, except that it gives a clear message that history will not be kind to certain factions of the american community that would attempt to deny history and attempt a return to the past, especially at the state level.

    When the Civil Rights act became an amendment, it was done because it gave political power and economic status to people who had been denied this, especially at the state level, for sure, here in the South. Even though the founding fathers may have been slave owners, they still were wise enough to word the Constitution in the manner in which they did, not exempting any race, religion, or gender of being inclusive.

    I can see where education may not be the actual problem. It has done nothing to challenge the divide that is still obvious in the voices of some of the posters who are speaking under the breath about how how inferior they believe some others to be in comparison to those of their own ilk.

    Charter schools, private schools, homeschooling, and the like are options that should be in place, but there has to be mandated educational requirements for all of the citizens.

    What we have in public schooling, even in its' imperfect nature, is the hope that stands between law-abiciing citizens and the deep blue sea. I am tired of holding tighter to my purse straps in today's society, even with law enforcement. They can't be everywhere at one time.

    I see public education as a system that should necessarily outweigh our prison system. Even that system should be a medium of changing the direction of a criminal, especially the one that are not educated, or dropped out of school. Prisons should not be a holding pattern for profit as is the case with a lot of these private prisons.

    There are no ivory towers, and freedom is not free. With no protection from what is supposed to be a government of the people, for the people, and by the people, where are we headed?

    I am sick to death of this shouting down the necessity of an involved and impartial government. Without such protection, we shall surely reduce our society as something less than civil. There is already a lot of evidence to speak for how this is already a possibility.

    I cannot concede in the face of tyranny or a society that will be rife with lawlessness, worse than what it is already. Public education has done more for the aid of public safety than the naysayers are willing to admot.

    • 3 votes
    #24.3 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:04 PM EDT
    DLMaston

    Got news for you, WJM.....that nonsense is part of what we STOPPED in Texas.
    I've read about the legislation being offered up in Tennessee, and that is an abomination to me! A pure abomination. Those demanding the changes in the historical facts should be booted from the system! It is an outrage! It is important to understand the dichotomy under which this nation was forced to develop during the years leading to the War Between the States. Students need to realize the compromises that were made, why they were made, and how their fellow Americans were effected by those decisions!

    In Texas, the attempts to re-write history were successfully done by liberals back in the late '90s and early '00s. All we did here was to correct what had been changed. The history in Texas schoolbooks has now been repaired to accurately reflect that which had been taught for more than 100 years, and that we have copious handwritten histories/accounts to confirm those events occurred.

    • 2 votes
    #24.4 - Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:04 AM EDT
    wjm5-0

    DLMaston

    Because I so enjoyed this article, I had to access my 'History' to see what you posted. Thank you for the continued debate.

    I can see what you have said, therefore, history will go forth, despite any effort to lessen its' impact and importance. We must admit the truth of that adage.........those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    In the last comment that I posted, I wanted to present my thoughts on why believe that public education is a necessity for a civil society.

    It is my personal opinion that if education is only for those who can afford it, or something that is not considered to be a societal necessity, then I cannot see that society surviving because there are those who would resort to whatever means are at their disposal to survive, especially going against the law and bringing about civil unrest.

    An educated populace, no matter if that educational system is in dire need of improvement, is surely one way of ensuring public safety.

    If left to their own devices, a person intentions for personal survival can and will lead them to break the law, such as mugging, burglarizing, or invading the privacy and property of others to get whatever they feel they need for their own survival. No written law has ever prevented people from doing this, and going to prison has never been a deterrence. Recidivism is the order of the day.

    I say public edcation is a positive for public safety because it does uplift an individual's personal aspects and can aid in assisting the citizenry to be law-abiding.

    Can you imagine what the 'haves' in this nation would face if we are confronted with an unwashed, uneducated majority who intends to survive, regardless of what the law says about how they should behave, or about how they have no right to invade the privacy and property of others? Think of the mass victimization and how martial law would become the rule of thumb.

    Law enforcement would not be able to answer the demand for protection from a society under such an overwhelming attack. Even though I believe in that Amendment Right to bear arms, I cannot imagine a society where I would have to arm myself just to go to the hairdresser, or to my mailbox at the curb in front of my home.

    Public education, IMPO, is a societal necessity. It can make us humane. Yes, it is in dire need of improvement, but to strike it down or neglect it, is dangerous to civility and our very survival as a nation.

    Sorry to see this much needed article reglated to the 'History' app. I would love to continue this discussion.

    • 1 vote
    #24.5 - Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:05 PM EDT
    DLMaston

    Yes. The remainder of your post (including the one above) was quite honest and insightful. I agree wit most of it....
    You see, I take special umbrage to those outside of the state of Texas that had no real first hand knowledge of the situation berating us about it. Our folks here actually corrected bad text back to the real history.
    The situation in Tennessee sounds as if it is out of hand and those people must be stopped.....if there is not more to the story that I am unaware of.

    • 2 votes
    #24.6 - Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:00 PM EDT
    MinnieApolis

    Well, let me clarify that my article is NOT about the funding or rather the guidelines for this proposed public education. It is about the absolute necessity of having public education to ensure that our republic continue to thrive. So we have hit some rocks along the way in how to go about it but we must keep striving to do this job right.

    • 1 vote
    #24.7 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:19 PM EDT
    j. johnson-3157491

    sorry Minnie got caught up, public ed is now being or attempted to wipe it out in favor of privatized money factory's for the right there is no real concern at least on that side about who know's when Washington crossed the Delaware, the business advantage's are paramount for them we change the party in ofc and it will become reality. progressive indifference is not an option my apology stay strong God Bless

    • 4 votes
    #24.8 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:03 PM EDT
    MinnieApolis

    Got it, j.j. Thanks for coming back to clarify because for sure I did not want to tick you off.

    • 1 vote
    #24.9 - Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:47 PM EDT
    Reply
    j. johnson-3157491

    wow GW Bush "you can fool some of the people all the time and those are the one's you want to concentrate on" works, paranoia and fear of what was created is i would say for that radical ideology "poetic justice". heard about Texas's rewritten history first hand Tennessee horror story's from residents. home schooling just creates more of the same and then who would except a home as accredited, college's won't. they didn't tell you that the hatred would conjure all kinds of insecurities just misleading the misleadables. if there was not that southern aire of God gave us dominion over the entire earth and the animals and the 3/5ther's. but after set in place education didn't tell the you other's would advance any way despite the foot on the back of the neck. you will reap what you sow. this will be sown the rest of your lives, yes my God is good not a hater. price of being concentrated on. good luck and God Bless your offspring.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#25 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:19 PM EDT
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