Is 'Minnesota Nice' Dead?

Minnesota news items from the past year give one pause when one considers that the natives have long prided themselves on being 'Minnesota Nice'. Minnesota is supposed to be a place where the whole state is just like the fictional Lake Woebegone of National Public Radio fame. Everyone has a smile on their face and time to share a recipe or free advice, and they tell their kids for gosh sakes obey the laws because you don't want offenses on your record.

The item that set me off was the one from the Iron Range this Wednesday where an employee was prodded with a backhoe by the company's co-owner because he "didn't think the construction worker in the trench was doing his job right, so he hit him with the backhoe." The Hermantown (near Duluth) man was lucky to escape with only bruises while the employer was charged with second- degree assault.

Other major stories this year included items on a 'nice guy' prostitution ring that was broken up, a Madoff-type Ponzi scheme, and on and on.

In a story that ran in the July 13 edition of the Star Tribune, 30 business men were arrested on charges they ran a high-priced prostitution ring after a year-long investigation. They called themselves the Minnesota Nice Guys. One of the more shocking things was not that they paid these women around $500 an hour, or that the pimp flew them in from out of state, but that the (alleged) ringleader was John St. Marie, a former assistant Hennepin County attorney.

By the way, a website that was a front for local Twin Cities prostitutes was also shut down this summer. It was called My Fast Pass, and had five times the number of customers that the Minnesota Nice Guys group had.. Who would have thought that these nice Minnesota girls would sell themselves, or that the Twin Cities had become such a hotbed (no pun intended) for call-girl businesses?

Then there is the whole Ponzi scheme business. I do not refer to the local victims of the Bernie Madoff scandal. We in Minnesota grow our own scammers. A trial of Thomas Petters is now underway on charges he bilked his investors of $3.65 billion. He ran his own Ponzi scheme that masqueraded as a consumer-products resale business. His associates Deanna Coleman and Bob White have pleaded guilty to forging documents. However, they say that Petters knew it was a scam. Petters says he was unable to focus on business after Petters' son died.

It is sad enough that we have come to expect chicanery in high finance circles, but we expect academia to be squeaky-clean. Yet a laboratory associated with the University of Minnesota is accused of faking data or photographs in stem cell research. Other researchers had difficulty in reproducing the results obtained by this Minnesota lab.

It sure seems like some Minnesotans take advantage of a rep for 'niceness' by stealing you blind. And you know what else? I cannot remember the last time a store clerk said "Good morning" or called me ma'am or thanked me for shopping there. Gosh, I don't think I'm in Lake Woebegone anymore.

Another Twin Cities prostitution website busted, 6-10-2009, Minneapolis Star-Tribune, www.startribune.com/local/east/47481952.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUac8HEaDiaMDCinchO7DU

Hermantown contractor charged with assaulting worker with backhoe, Pioneer Press, 11-9-2009, www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_13748602?nclick_check=1

'Nice Guys' prostitution ring ready for prosecutors, Insider Escort Secrets, 7-13-2009, insiderescortsecrets.com/wordpress/news/nice-guys-prostitution-ring/

Petters Admitted Deals Were Criminal, Prosecutor Says at Trial, Feeley and Hawkins, Bloomberg, 10-29-2009, www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=acuS7jzGmP4o

U of Minnesota Panel Says Stem-Cell Scientist Faked Data, The Chronicle of Higher Education, 10-7-2008, chronicle.com/article/U-of-Minnesota-Panel-Says/41756

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Groups: Crime and Punishment, Criminology, Das Krapital, Gut Check America, Heated Debate, Lost in Transition?, Minnesota Newsviners, Writers
Regions: Minneapolis/Saint Paul

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3.9

{"commentId":10757711,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

It just seems more of a myth than anything.

{"commentId":10757711,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

#1 - Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:50 PM EST

{"commentId":10758828,"authorDomain":"pennid"}

PenniD

Sorry to hear that Minnesota is changing so much. The last time I went through there was mid 70s, and I was struck how nice everyone was. Such a beautiful place, it seemed like it just oozed niceness. Too many people look down on nice these days, such a shame.

{"commentId":10758828,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"pennid"}

2 votes

#2 - Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:26 PM EST

{"commentId":10760011,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

Maybe it was too much pressure, trying to be nice all the time. And so then people started to crack.

One person I talked to thinks it had something to do with the downturn in the economy, but I don't think that's any excuse.

{"commentId":10760011,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

1 vote

#3 - Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:05 PM EST

{"commentId":10760155,"authorDomain":"pennid"}

PenniD

Minnesota used to be full of Norwegians and Scandinavians, first and second generation types. Like all of us, they probably save seen their children and grandchildren adopt ways that are not as nice as the ones they had. It's a sad thing about the melting pot, it seems to boil out all the nice.

{"commentId":10760155,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"pennid"}

#3.1 - Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:10 PM EST

{"commentId":10767033,"authorDomain":"mtmeyer1"}

I've never gotten to travel to Minnesota, but I always thought that the people there were 'just folks' like us-- here in KY. It just gets colder up there.

Sometimes, it seems that the people around us take on an 'ornery spell'. Other times, I feel like everyone around me is just as lovely as anyone could want. Sometimes, the weight of the human condition seems to be overwhelming-- after all, we only hear the bad news, not the good news. "Lady Says Hey to Unknown Paper Boy" doesn't make much of a news story.

I think that a lot of courtesy has left our world, and can only hope that it returns. About all I can do about it is this-- be as nice as I can, one person at a time. Sometimes, that is hard work, in and of itself.

But I think you manage to be nice to everyone, Minnie--

(((((((((Minnie))))))))))))

{"commentId":10767033,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"mtmeyer1"}

2 votes

#4 - Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:34 PM EST

{"commentId":10781541,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

Thanks, I needed that, Dowser.

{"commentId":10781541,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

1 vote

#5 - Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:37 PM EST

{"commentId":10791382,"authorDomain":"Rusty007"}

Being from Iowa, my first visit was in high school debate. They seemed nice enough...

Living here now for several years in the quaint little town our governor grew up in, a very blue collar town, I still find the niceness. I hear it in the guv's words but don't see it in his actions. As property taxes soar while he's acting Mr. Clean and Frugal.

I see the dissassociation of acting one way and doing another. I see it in the Tom Petters trial where Petters takes the witness stand to say, gee, gosh, golly, I didn't know what my executive staff was up to -- I was grieving the death of my son (killed in a homocidal knife attack in Italy a few years back).

And what I also see is that many Minnesotans are transplanted Iowans like me and I wonder if that isn't where they got their good manners from. They act like Iowans sometimes. They're almost nice around here. Almost.

Having said that, I like it up here more than down in Des Moines. I like my local church up here more than the ones down there. So I say this all in stride.

I tried to get the guy from Lake W. to help me co-author a stage play about the tearing down of a certain major theater here. He made a movie about it. Altman directed. I never even got a mention. or a thank-you note. He didn't even send flowers.

On Minnesota Public Radio, when asked why he wrote the movie script, he replied, "I had to before someody else would."

How nice!

And yet I still had to go to the the state fair, which is in St. Paul, not Minneapolis, and watch his live show because my wife wanted to and she had bought tickets.

Just bein' nice, I guess.

I've seen New Yorkers yell at train conductors or my behalf when the subway doors closed on my briefcase while I was trying to treat them like elevator doors. I think New Yorkers are the most jaded -- and the most nice -- people on the planet.

But I'm just one guy from Iowa who lives in Pig-Town these days up North a bit. Yet I must confess: of all the states I've visited (about 40) and all the places I've seen, I still heart NYC the most. They are nice under their hard, cold facade. But once you get past that, they're better than anybody anywhere.

They know what it's like to have been mugged three times. Nice but not naive, like we Iowans, Radar O'Reilly might just add.

Hoping this doesn't offend as that wouldn' be very nice... :)

{"commentId":10791382,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"Rusty007"}

2 votes

#6 - Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:47 PM EST

{"commentId":10792060,"authorDomain":"mtmeyer1"}

I, too, found most of the people that I met in NYC to have hearts of gold! I'm from KY-- and have traveled a lot, but most people are basically nice, even if they don't always behave in a friendly manner.

{"commentId":10792060,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"mtmeyer1"}

2 votes

#6.1 - Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:44 AM EST

{"commentId":10843112,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

Hello Iowa. I have some Iowa relatives (among others) and they are just as down to earth as anyone I've met. Have not been to NYC, so I'll have to take everyone's word on that. I did meet a transplanted Long Islander, who told me that New Yorkers, contrary to stereotype, are among the most polite of people.

I like Kentuckians, too. I find most of them pretty down to earth and practical and good-hearted. There's some real toney-phonies in the Lexington area, tho, among the connected set. Ignore them.

{"commentId":10843112,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

2 votes

#6.2 - Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:51 AM EST

{"commentId":10848280,"authorDomain":"mtmeyer1"}

Minnieapolis, you have that right. The Lexington bunch are a different breed-- or can be in certain 'groups'. So is Frankfort. EGAD.

But, the rest of the state is pretty normal. We just watched a thing on TV about this guy that goes to different states, and he said he always loved to come to KY, just because everyone calls him "honey". As in, (the server asks), "What do you want for dinner tonight, honey?"

Down here, it is part of the social norm to say, "Hey" to everyone you meet on the street. Or at least smile at them. I guess that sounds silly, but it does make your day better. :-)

Please, have a great day today, Minnie, and take good care--

{"commentId":10848280,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"mtmeyer1"}

3 votes

#6.3 - Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:30 PM EST

{"commentId":10861009,"authorDomain":"Rusty007"}

Hey, Dowser, I learned to say hey a lot when I lives in Tallahasse for several years. Just joined in using the local dialectict.

I don't know where his comes from, maybe the person that wrote the script, but did ya ever notice that in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid they never speak to eacher as often than when they say "Hey" to one another?

And neither one of them from Daniel Boone Country as it were.

As Americans, no matter from Jersey or out west a bit, I guess we're all from Boone Country and the Cumberland Gap, more or less.

Just finding our own elbow room in different places, maybe?

I very greatly enjoy the frienship of the people I live and even work with here in the twin cities area of Minnesota. And ditto for those I've found in many other states, as well.

We're just a nice country, darn it. (Don't tell the politicians, though, eh?)

{"commentId":10861009,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"Rusty007"}

2 votes

#6.4 - Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:23 PM EST

{"commentId":10861760,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

Hey, Rusty -- I say hey and amen to that.

{"commentId":10861760,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

1 vote

#6.5 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:30 AM EST

{"commentId":10871313,"authorDomain":"mtmeyer1"}

Yep, Rusty, you're right! Hope you have a great day!!

{"commentId":10871313,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"mtmeyer1"}

1 vote

#6.6 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:54 PM EST

{"commentId":10811948,"authorDomain":"bigsaf"}

bigsaf

Well, whatever Minnesota is doing, its killing the Canadian niceness too!

Just too many scandals coming out of our government, and certain increase of cynicism amongst the population. Well, at least in Toronto. Other parts are nicer.

{"commentId":10811948,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"bigsaf"}

3 votes

#7 - Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:12 AM EST

{"commentId":10822634,"authorDomain":"Rusty007"}

Bigsaf, I'm thinking it's in great part because of the last two governors here. Rubs off on everyone around 'em -- first the jackel Ventura attacking the press when they questioned whether he should be touring Ground Zero in NYC while state workers were on strike, trying to negotiate getting back to work, then Pawlenty acting nice while forcing property taxes to double (by cutting state aid to cities).

There is hope on the horizon, though. Former US Senator Mark Dayton of the Dayton chain store fame and fortune (where Mary Tyler Moore stood in front of when tossing her hat in the air on her TV show in the 1970s), who resigned from the Senate because politics in Washington was so disgusting, is running for Pawlenty's job and was just recently endorsed by most of the state, municipal and county workers union (AFSCME).

Dayton has always seemed very genuine to me and I think he would bring back the genuine nature of niceness that we need now more han ever. Like a Kennedy, he doesn't need the money and isn't influenced by it. His last act in the Senate was to try to cap credit card rates at no more than 25% interest and he was called a socialist for that, and it was defeated.

{"commentId":10822634,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"Rusty007"}

2 votes

#7.1 - Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:09 PM EST

{"commentId":10843005,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

I am hopeful of Dayton's chances in the run-up to the primaries. Be sure that campaign donations will flow from the finance industry to his opponents, tho. They would not want the great state of MN to crimp their style if hemanaged to introduce and pass a similar cap on interest rates.

And yeah, I'm really concerned and disappointed in Pawlenty, whose idea of governing is just to cut everything to the bone, even stuff like education. Education spending needs to be beefed up to remedy some serious shortfalls, and cutting it even more does not help the state to produce well-educated workers that attract companies to set up here.

Sorry I have been away for a few days. Nothing was happening with this article when I first posted so I just got busy with other stuff.

{"commentId":10843005,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

2 votes

#7.2 - Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:45 AM EST

{"commentId":10861194,"authorDomain":"Rusty007"}

MinneApolis, I give Mark 10:1 odds in this crowded field -- and regrettably am an old personal friend and colleage of Matt E., who should have had this race sewn.

Things change over time. Mark Dayton didn't. Matt can spend all the money he wants and he's still got no chin.

I still have a great admiration and respect for the Matt I knew long ago as fellow college debater.

But now I'm betting on Dayton to win the gubernatorial race.

{"commentId":10861194,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"Rusty007"}

1 vote

#7.3 - Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:38 PM EST

{"commentId":10861747,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

Interesting you know one of the candidates. You shared a debate dais, I take it? Well let's hope the best person wins.

{"commentId":10861747,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}

2 votes

#7.4 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:28 AM EST

{"commentId":10882089,"authorDomain":"Rusty007"}

MinneApolis, I never shared the same "dias" with Matt, as it were (we usually just stood up and spoke from the tabe we were sitting at) because he was a far, far better national college debater than I was. I was more the political organizer.

Everyone has their different strengths and weaknesses. Matt is a genius in so many ways. But I was the politically savvy one (having already worked on a US Senate campaign by then) and he was the faster thinker and I would say more intellectual one way back in 1979-81 when we were on the same debate squad but not team-mates, as in being on the same 2-person debate team. He was always on our top teams, even as a freshman at Augie.

I continue to wish him well. But he's not being very savvy, so I think he's outmatched by former US Senator Mark Dayton.

That said, I don't think that any of the DFL candidates are doing a very good job. In speaking to a union gathering, they each tried to out-match one another on talking about the need to raise taxes.

That is not the best way to begin a debate about why "you should vote for me": no, I'll raise taxes more than him, or no, I'll raise everyone else's taxes but not yours... Scares the bejeebers outta voters of all stripes. Nobody had the guts to talk about other ways to fix problems. There are always other things one can do.

So of all the candidates on the DFL side, I am unfortunately noting that they're just not being very savvy. It's like they don't at all connect with the average voter, even in their own party.

Sad, that...

{"commentId":10882089,"threadId":"727607","contentId":"3516852","authorDomain":"Rusty007"}

1 vote

#7.5 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:40 PM EST

{"commentId":10930574,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}